I thought ... this is true, as far as it goes ... but there's more.
So many MPs (mostly Labour, but all too many from the other parties) of all ages follow the following career paths University-Education-Politics & University-Law-Politics. These career paths may well produce people who can produce sound bites for complaisant media reporters, but they are unlikely to produce people who are qualified to run a whelk stall, let alone a country. Politicians who understand politics, but understand nothing else.
Which MPs have ever done any productive work in their life? Which MPs have ever tried following the red tape they delight in demanding from others? Which MPs have even read a balance sheet? Which MPs have experienced what any commercial company does (even from the second-hand perspective of a professional union organiser)? Which MPs have lived in a fantasy land, isolated from anything productive that *adds* value, for their entire life?Well, Martin, it isn't limited to "youthful cabinet ministers". Take for example the following biography for an MP in his late fifties.
1) Born 1951
2) In "education" until 1982, BA in history, then lectures in politics. Complete his PhD thesis (titled "titled The Labour Party and Political Change in Scotland 1918-29") in 1982. To paraphrase Clausewitz his education appears to have been "a continuation of politics by other means".
3) Enters parliament in 1983
4) Becomes Cabinet minister in 1997.
Who is this paragon of politics? This parasite on the productive part of this country? This one-man disaster?
.
.
.
.
.
.
The member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath,
The Rt Hon Gordon Brown MP
In case people doubt my mini-biography of this individual, they can verify it using his self-published biography:
http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/page12037.asp and google can be used to verify the points he omits from his bio.
I invite the submission of biographies for other professional parasites.
Cynosarges
23 comments:
Cynosarges:
I have been giving some thought to how this blog of yours could become a haven for those being censored on Cif.
How do you feel about using its URL (is that the right term?) on your postings on cif and allowing others who are still able to post on cif to 'advertise' - provide a link to it (Captain Nemo, Kyoto, Robbinghood, Domu, MultiD, Craigoh, etc spring to mind) on any comments that they make on Cif. This is currently done by the likes of BritishAirman and others of the Pro Neu Labour grouping so I would think that the moderators would have trouble justifying removing it from others posts?
Given that you have set up this blog, it would be a fantastic opportunity to subvert the current censorship for others to say what they really feel without having to worry about censorship and banning.
I'm thinking that it could be a sort of 'mirror' site to Cif where the true feelings of posters may be reflected.
I would be interested in your thoughts for this proposal.
Keep well.
Silent Hunter
Hi Silent Hunter.
I've decided to separate this into two blogs. "Dialogues" will be devoted to discussions, hoping to offer civilised debate. I've just started an additional blog http://whowillguardtheguardian.blogspot.com/ which will be specifically devoted to reporting items that have been unjustly censored.
However, before I go active, I need to sort out my house rules. I don't want to copy the Guardian's censors, or to emulate the excessive insults that fly about on some subjects, so this needs some thought. Any comments much appreciated.
Ok Cynosarges :O)
Primarily I agree with the notion of house rules which are clearly listed and adhered to but which do not subjugate free speech.
I am not a fan of gratuitous foul language but I believe in 'robust' debate which may involve calling a spade a bloody shovel once in a while. ;O)
However, Racist or hate filled posts should be removed; I suspect that you will need to 'go live' and see what you get, before you can decide where to place the parameters.
I would suggest that you fly the kite of the 'alternative Guardian' blogspot with a few of those 'friends' I suggested previously.......not sure how you could do this without alerting the Cif editorial team though?
Perhaps you could invite some of the free speech supporters from the Rawnsley thread, for starters, to visit this blog.
We could put up a sort of 'Free Speech Manifesto' for want of a better phrase :O) and see if this strikes a chord?
I think this would be better done sooner rather than later whilst the issue of censorship on Cif is still fresh in everyone's mind.
Needless to say that I would be more than happy to assist you in any way to get this started, bearing in mind that my U Boat was depth charged by the Mods ;O) effectively (temporarily) Silencing the Hunter on Cif.........I was considering 'surfacing' on Cif again, under another pseudonym, purely with a view to advertising the alternative to Cif.
So....I agree that the 'alter ego page for the Cif refugees' sounds like a good start.....it would be interesting to poll some opinions from some of the others first to see if there is an appetite for this approach.
I would expect that the answer would be largely positive.
What do you think?
Silent Hunter
PS How do I get a blogger/Google to allow me to post as Silent Hunter on other blogs? At present I'm having to post anonymously, which rather goes against my principles :O)....Any help would be appreciated.
Silent Hunter
go to www.blogger.com
click on "create your blog now"
this will take you to "create a google account" (this is where you id yourself as silent hunter)
Once you've done this, go to "edit profile".
then (until you wish to do otherwise), uncheck "share my profile" "show my real name" "show my email address"
*You don't need to create a blog* I did this initially to idientify myself on Guido's site.
Hi Cynosarges and silent, testing whether this works and if its got my name ok...
I can understand some worries about letting whoever post whatever, there must be some issues around libel and also the anti terror stuff. And is there not still a law on the statute books which makes it an offence to criticise the government, well I think I read that but have no refs, all these must be of some concern.
Maybe whats needed could be a blog that is not readily traceable to "a person",not sure how that might be done but as google id only seems to want an email address then possibly a domain registered in obscuristan which comes with its own email adresses would do it.
I am certain that special branch/MI something/the CIA are clocking the dissidents. ( Inc ourselves)Why wouldnt they?
Disclaimer: I love my gubmint and blair is ok with me tap my phone anytime guv its a laugh a minnit...There, that should do it!!
Far as CIF goes I will quite happily post links etc
Silent I got the impression that the mods had it in for you generally and they had you down as a rebel/wrong un and the off topic might just be an excuse. Something around you not being respectful enough. Load of crap anyhow. Its upsetting to be silenced and so much for free speech. Incidentally I notice that Andreas Whittam smith over at the Indy is writing some articles that are much more "left than owt on cif...
Im surprised they let me say some of the things I say on there and something tells me I might not have a bright future with Georgy et al. But it is a forum that reaches worldwide and Ill try to hang in meanwhile because it does have reach. I still naively believe that some minds are being changed by whats happening on teh interblogswebnet. I hope Hain, Conway et al read the genuine hatred expressed for their sordid doings.
Take care!
CaptainNemo
Some stuff I was going to mention;
Im not sure how worthwhile it is to gather in a corner, even a congenial corner like this one, with like minded people, except to discuss and keep in touch.
That is the thing about the Guardian it reaches a wider audience with divergent views.
There is plenty of talent on cif, and other places too, plenty of good ideas lots of vision. I was wondering whether it might be worth talking amongst ourselves and others, about whether we should be setting up our own independent "Think tank". Its not difficult to do, membership by invitation, we could debate, launder our money, and produce weighty reports. Seriously this might be a vehicle to move our ideas up from blog level to article in its own right level.
Want to be heard? What do you think?
****Nemo****
Good work, guys.
I had been toying with the idea of starting a 'Georgina alternative' webpage then decided that it may not be practical (for me, due to other constraints).
All power to the collective elbow for you guys.
In the meantime, I will open a new page at LetterDrop for anything you want to 'park' there while you are deciding upon the ways to make things 'feasible' elsewhere.
The idea of posting a url link has been successful up till now and will be until the Mods get some automation into the deletion system.
Of course, the various Blue meanies are monitoring who is saying what and where.
I am too old for it to be much of a threat to me.
Still, keep your security progs up to date because who knows what is being put on your computer without your knowledge.
I say that as being someone who is very comp literate but who has noticed that the security services always grab the comp first and if necessary try to push a charge through on some other basis eg Forrestgate.
Hi all. Will post with a bit more gusto another time - have just got off work (nights again this week).
Just for a bit of interest, have a look at :- http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2252536,00.html
A certain writer goes into Hain's matters in greater detail than a certain deleted post from a certain 'Cynosarges'.
Opening bets on the whole article being deleted...!!
Dougalman.
What Ho Dougalman:
Could you repost the link to that Guardian story you want us to look at again as I can't get your link to work.
Ta! :O)
Hi guys!
I have been giving this matter a lot of thought and after a bit of a lie down ;O) I have a suggestion to make.
I take on board what you're saying Nemo about the wider audience catchment provided on Cif and yes; although 'here' is a good place to meet up and discuss weighty issues amongst our selves, it still doesn't satisfy the need to counter the bias and censorship in an open forum such as Cif. I agree that we don't need to preach to the converted.
I also agree with Cynosarges & Boldscot, that this could be a sort of 'home base' for 'raids' into enemy territory (Cif).(Sorry guys, I've been watching the Battle of Britain again!)
Bear with me whilst I try to put some flesh on the bones of this idea.
Unlike Boldscot & myself; you others are still able to post on Cif........the problem is the ability of the moderators to remove your right to freedom of speech by deletion and ultimately by banning access to Cif.
One way I think that we can get around this problem would be to use our 'homebase' as an area where we could say what we really feel about articles etc on Cif by writing them 'here' and providing a link to this page on any comments made on Cif.
How we word that invitation is the key as far as I can see.
It could be couched in terms of eg:
"In the interests of Free Speech, this writer has commented upon this article / post at (provide link to our homebase) please refer here for the uncensored reply / comment"
This in itself should pique the interest of folk to discover what's on the 'other side' so to speak.
The success of this will depend upon how we set up the 'Georgina Alternative Site' (I like that name Boldscot :O)
Cynosarges was considering doing something similar, so we perhaps need to agree the format for this alternative Blogspace, for want of a better word.
This is where I believe that we should invite others of like mind on Cif to participate in our initial discussions (Hi Dougalman! ;O)
The trick, as I see it, is to involve a fairly high number of like minded participants as quickly as possible to establish the concept of switching between blogs to undermine the moderators ability to stifle debate and promote their ruling party bias.
So....those in the know would, open up Comment is Free and start posting; as soon as the moderators start to interfere with proceedings you could press Control & N which will open another instance of your chosen web browser where you can quickly navigate to the 'homebase' page and open it in parallel to Cif.
Then you are able to jump between the two, by posting our link on Cif in words such as those suggested...BUT ...you then write the comment on our alternative blog, where it can be seen by all interested parties, including those who will also be able to make the jump between Cif & our blogsite by simply clicking on the alternate link tabs in the task bar next to the windows start button; having themselves done the 'Control,N thing'.
This means that we can have a 'virtual' presence on Cif without actually saying anything ON CIF that could get us moderated or banned.
If they did that; then they would have to do the same to the Pro Government proles such as Britishairman and MarkGreenO (if he still exists)
This is how I think we could progress but I am fully aware that there are other (& greater) intellects out there........so how about it?
Let's hear some of your comments on this idea and alternatives or refinements that you may well be able to suggest.
I look forward to hearing from you all soon.
You good friend...Silent Hunter. :O)
Hi All
I've set up a specific anti-censorship blog. I chose the blogname with malice aforethought, I hope it is appreciated!
http://www.whowillguardtheguardian.blogspot.com/
In the long term, I'd like use this for the anti-censorship activity, while saving "Dialogues" for my more intellectual pretensions.
Also, the URL makes a point against the "moderators" by its very name!
One of the problems we currently have is that only the blog creator can create a post, while others can only comment. However, I have been doing a little investigation of blog capabilities, and I can allow others to post to a blog. However, to do this, I need to send a email to each individual inviting them to belcome an "author". If someone is willing to try this out, please will you send your email to me - cynosarges at sky dot com
@ Dougalman
I would like your permission to post your "Titanic" skit on Dialogues.
Cynosarges
I'll take the 'anon' bet that the GM article will not be deleted.
It may be shuffled off to the archives, or elsewhere, but no deleted. That is not the way it always works.
.
'Super Soaraway Graun' is a lot easier.
http://tinyurl.com/32oxdp
.
Incidentally, LetterDrop had a few spam messages this week.
First time for any of the blogs he has hosted. Interesting, though maybe it is a quirk of wordpress - I remember Szwagier getting overwhelmed on his first blog.
Will wait and see, because on 'blogspot' there have been no problems for me, so far, this last year.
From Dougalman
Hi All.
Silenthunter, I've tried putting up the link again but something is stopping my cut'n'paste taking the correct page properly. The article in question is George Monbiot's latest article 'This scandal makes it clear: for Labour, money trumps principle every time' so hope that helps, in a slightly more roundabout manner. In essence, I'm a bit concerned that an article which goes into Hain's 'alleged' deals in much more subjective terms than other - fully linked and justifed - comments have been edited out from previous articles. Genuinely smacks of double standards, and I think on this occasion there's genuinely a case to answer from Rusbridger's tedious rag.
Now. Some of my smelliest friends are ex-Submariners so from experience, the main advantage of a boat is that it remains unseen. You might consider prefixing your posts with 'PING'! to alert those who know what to listen for. Airlite Headphones plugged in, Auto Gain Control 'on'....
Cynosarges, please by all means preserve that piece, many thanks for the consideration. Glad you liked it, but the leader writer did rather walk into that one this time round. I know you post on the Telegraph pages on occssion, you'll find me posting under 'Douglas Carter'.
Under the terms of your alternative site, I'm also about to post a copy of something I saved some weeks ago. Forgot I saved it until your new site jogged my memory.
Have fun all,
Dougalman.
errm
Hi Cynosarges and greetings to all others here, Cyno thanks for your invite to enable posting new topics on Quis custodiet, took some time to unravel for some reason but finally got it to work and posted a tired but triumphantly off topic few words. About an individual known as Lord Guthrie.
Silent some good ideas in your post,,,, I have btw already started to post thinly veiled invites to others on cif (Good comment! See here for further relevant material etc etc ) and so far the mods either dont mind or have not noticed.May try your "free speech" format next time and see what results
Regards Nemo
Hi Nemo,
I looked for the Monbiot thread but it seems to have been removed.
Georgina up to her usual tricks LOL
I would suggest that we keep our powder dry on Cif at present until we get a consensus of opinion regarding my initial ideas and have discussed how best to do this without alerting the mods to our alternative blog.......kudos to Cynosarges for getting this up and running.
I see that a few friendly faces are starting to arrive here already - would you be able to send an 'invite' including the link to here to the following
Kyoto, Robbinghood, Domu, MultiD, Craigoh, jeremyjames and BasilF when you come across them on Cif?
Hope to hear from you soon.
All the best.
Your Silent friend ;O)
Hiya Silent
will look out for names on your list; There's a few others I would suggest, MrDismal for one and how about radished,LaxativeFunction, 56000xp, there are others who I would consider, what do you think? Some of these got deleted on Toynbees current article, "Talk of time to turn and flee is wrong - as long as Nato is given a boost"",and should be in the mood to do something elsewhere.
And Btw when there is a quorum what do you think about setting up a chatroom so we might all speak in real time? Bit later maybe?
Regards Nemo
Copy;;;;;;;
CaptainNemo
February 8, 2008 8:27 PM
Mr Dismal;
Good comments.
Some relevant source material for you here;
http://dialoguesinthegymnasium.blogspot.com/
(second post/comments.)
http://whowillguardtheguardian.blogspot.com/
These might also be of interest to;
LaxativeFunction
56000XP
jeremyjames
Must say how encouraging it is that Polly has taken the trouble actually to go to Kabul. Brsvo!
well they did not delete this--yet!
Captain Nemo!
Well done that man! :O)
I eventually found the Monbiot thread and I see what you mean.
Please feel free to invite any like minded folk from Cif to come and see what this is all about...........Free Speech! ;O)
As a thought......Cynosarges et al;
Would it be a good idea to copy and paste the original Andrew Rawnsley thread that started this whole ball rolling and invite people to re-instate their original postings, along side the 'deleted by Moderator' comment?
We could use it as a very obvious example of what 'censorship' means when it is politically motivated.
This will provide ammunition against those that say the posts were deleted for breaching talk policy when this clearly wasn't the case.
How would this stand with regards to Rawnsleys or The Guardians copyright?
It may be impossible to do, for legal reasons, but it's a thought.
Hi Silent Hunter
What people could do is, *when they post on CIF* "copy and post" onto http://whowillguardtheguardian.blogspot.com
then, if it's censored, you've got a copy.
Furthermore, I've been looking at what we could do. One possibility is to set up a blog which only "invitees" can see. Then we have safe storage and can discuss amongst ourselves to see if anyone thinks there are legal issues, before publicising on a visible blog.
Hi Cynosarges,
Yes,I like that idea about safe storage for, shall we say, 'contentious' posts on Cif.
How much web space have you got?
Would you be able to archive as much material as we may end up acquiring?
This would however, tie in nicely with being able to switch back & forth between Cif & WhoWillGuardTheGuardian blogs to subvert the Guardians more politically biased moderation.
The 'invitees' blog space is also a great idea to discuss matters, as long as it doesn't become just a talking shop between a small select band.
To make this work, we should open the discussion to as many like minded Cif 'refugees' as possible.
The Captain is doing a good job of attracting the attention of like minded Free Speech supporters on Cif, so yes, let's have a meeting space to discuss things before, as you say, we go public.
I have realised that I can no longer post to the Cif from my own PC because they use filters that check your ISP given tag number (curses), BUT I can create an alter ego from my work PC :O)
My intention is not to be 'problematic' to the moderators but rather to invite like minded individuals to visit HWGTGBlog in a surreptitious manner....not my usual style, I know :O)
Keep well.
I have created a new blog This blog can ONLY be seen by people I invite in as blog authors, so it provides a safe place to archive any postings that can be deleted. To be become an author, you need to be invited to join the blog, so you need to send an email to cynosarges at sky dot com
When I reeive your email, I will get blogspot to send you an invitation, and after you accept the invitation, you will be able to see and post to http://disputearchive.blogspot.com
Cynosarges
Hi Silent,
here's a link to some software that will solve the problem of guraniad picking up your IP address, and make you anonymous on the net to boot, possibly the Guaardion is not the only lot of people interested in who is posting what where.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Network-Tools/IP-Tools/Hide-My-IP.shtml
So which blog should I be putting on cif to attract new talent, and should we not have a post that is there for these new arrivals, some sort of mission statement (Ha! doncha luv that syntax)or whatever, and possibly an invite to somewhere we might be able to chat in realtime (a chatroom) Easy to set up if anyone has any webspace, I cant do this at the moment because Portland who gave me free web space for years have suddenly imploded and I am wondering whether to set up my own server or just go to the pub instead which is easier.
And while all the proposed objectives so far seem worthwhile and sensible, I am still interested in the concept of a group of like minded (but not cloned) people who may form something akin to a pressure group, a cyber think tank perhaps. The idea that alone we are simply that, alone, leads to the well known concept of maximising influence thru association (unions are one example)
I realise that people have lives and jobs, dogs and spouses,are drunk a lot of the time, cant remember what day it is, think they live in fictional submarines etc But, still, and yet. Spending long periods of time underwater probably does not help, and Jules Verne like vic hugo was a crap writer.ahem.
Regrads Nemo
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